Sonic pad add printer. All suggestions to fix this failed, i.

**Marlin Firmware for non-C In this video I'm going to quickly run you through setting up a Creality Sonic Pad and connecting it to your Creality 3d Printer. [stepper_x] step_pin: PC2 dir_pin: PB9 enable_pin: !PC3 microsteps: 16 Buy Creality Sonic Pad featuring Control up to 4 FDM 3D Printers, Precise Motor Control for Fast Printing, Pre-Configured with 22 Creality Models, Large 7" Touchscreen Display, Controllable via LAN-based Web UI, 64-bit SoC with 2GB RAM and 8GB Storage, RJ45 Port and Wi-Fi 4 (802. To us, it feels a bit like the Sonic Pad has been rushed to market. But I can't seem to send prints to the second printer from cura. Affiliate links (If you purchase something Since the user-defined printer compilation function is added to the Sonic Pad on the October upgrade, it is much easier to use Sonic Pad with non-Creality pr The good: There is a virtual_sd card path in your printer. Supported 3D Printers. It matches with Ender 3V2, Ender 3S1, Ender 3S1 Pro,Ender 5s1,Ender-3 Max Neo,CR-10Smart Pro and other Creality printers or other brand machines like Prusa. Sep 12, 2022 · Creality's Sonic Pad is a 7-inch touchscreen running on Klipper firmware and powered by a 64-bit operating system. 10000+ "creality sonic pad holder bracket mount" printable 3D Models. , Ltd. cfg UPD. If changing USB port is needed, remove the original device first then re-add a new device. With these brackets you can mount your Sonic Pad's Sensor for the Input Shaping tuning process. May 29, 2024 · The Creality Sonic Pad is a smart add-on for 3D printers that can enhance users’ 3D printing experience in many ways, though it may not be for everyone. Also, as it needs to stay attached as the bed cools, consider using a gluestick or tape on your bed to Creality Sonic Pad November Upgrades Sonic pad based on klipper firmware can connect to almost any FDM 3D printer on the market via a USB cable. I installed a Sonic Pad last night, runs great except that the XYZ travel distances are off, particularly Z, which is causing Z-Height calibration issues. General Discussion. 91. In this video I will walk you through the set up of the Creality Sonic Pad on a Creality Ender 5 S1. 25 firmware, the sonic pad will not work with the pre-2023 laser modules (the ones before they released falcon standalones). The Creality Sonic Pad is essentially a small computer with a touchscreen display that attaches to your 3D printer with USB. 00:59 04-28-2023. May 19, 2023 · Which 3D Printer Is Compatible with the Creality Sonic Pad? by Connor Licht. cfg to the one on the sonic pad. (Note: After the upgrade is complete, the printer needs to be added again). log (70. cfg file to the printer. 1). 6. 7. I am using the serial cable in the correct (top left) USB port. txt, you have to setup a webcam per printer within mainsail, if each printer knows what camera to use, it should work. Mar 23, 2023 · A: 1. 10000+ "sonic pad sensor mount" printable 3D Models. Click "Bind 2 Printers" to bind and manage the printers. [ Latest update: 21/03/2023 – V1. The new Rotation_distance is set in the Sonic Pad menu. I can download, slice and print straight from my laptop and reprint any file on any printer from my cell phone. 11n) Module, Runs Klipper Firmware, OTA & USB Upgradeable, User-Defined Programmable Macros. i was able to, BUT its not supported. DC CAM LAN USB SENSOR 2. Doing a few upgrades to my Creality Ender-5S!. Every Day new 3D Models from all over the World. Easy operation for 3D beginners. These updates bring both improvements of existing features and other new features, such as support for In addition to its built-in touchscreen, the Sonic Pad enables you to control your printer remotely over a WiFi network. Till now, there are 22 Creality printers in total that have been preconfigured to Sonic Pad. Retro Stinger Dual 5015 Sprite Cooling System. However, the installation should be the same on the Crea May 3, 2023 · Help with Ender 3 pro with sprite, crtouch, dual z and klipper. Sonic pad keeps losing connection. The entire procedure only takes about 10 to 15 minutes to complete Look in your printer. Update 11/11/22. So - I tried flashing my Ender 3S1back to a new (without Sonic Pad) firmware (Ender-3S1 USB1 intermittent. In my experience it is very hard to update each component and even thought it can be possible, the frontend for the display fluidd-pad is tightly couple with their special forks of the components. For instance: Printer 1: Port 7125 - Bound to physical USB Port 1 Printer 2: Port 7126 - Bound to physical USB Port 2 Sep 26, 2022 · Creality Sonic Pad November Upgrades: Add the function of controlling 4 printers at one time with one Sonic Pad. 0 Add XMas w. You may have a 1. 4) Set up and calibrate new printer including resonance test and pressure advance. Ender3 S1 Pro with Sonicpad. Share: In this video I'm going to show you how I got Voron 3D Printer speeds on an Ender budget. Sep 16, 2022 · Creality Sonic Pad November Upgrades: Add the function of controlling 4 printers at one time with one Sonic Pad. Published May 19, 2023. Creality Sonic Pad is a powerful 64-bit computing platform with a 7-inch touch control screen that is designed to monitor and control your 3D printer with ease. Added Pre-configuration setting for Ender-3 Pro, Ender-5 Plus, Ender-3 Max, Ender-3 S1 Plus, CR-10 Smart, CR-10S PRO V2, CR-10 V3. I can go through the UI to add it, and the fans work fine in the setup, but the bed leveling is off. Log into the webUI with the Pads IP address and then go to configuration and edit the printer. 3 out of 5 stars 20 We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. Sonic Pad Issue - Printer is not ready. Add the function of controlling 4 printers at one time with one Sonic Pad. User Perspectives and Reviews: Real Talk from Real Users 🗣️. Pasting your printer. 2 Chipset GD32F303 klippy. Ender-3 V3 Plus. 1, Add 3 new pre-configured printers: Prusa MK3S+, CR-10 V2 Ender 3 Neo. Sonic Pad XYZ Calibration. At the price of $159, it will unleash your printer’s potential and bring you more possibilities in 3D printing! Get your Sonic Pad today from Creality’s US store or EU store! About the Author. Sonic Pad Based on Klipper Firmware 7 Inch Touch Screen 3D Printer Smart Pad with Higher Printing Speed for Creality Ender 3 Pro/Ender 3 V2/Ender 3 V3 SE/Ender 3 S1 Series Ender 3D Printers. With Creality Print, you can access your Creality Cloud account to operate the printing Mar 17, 2023 · Creality's Sonic Pad is advertised as a plug and play solution to speed up your 3d printing without loosing quality. 6) Re-do calibration and resonance test on first 1. Till now, there are 21 Creality printers in total that have been preconfigured to Sonic Pad: free Downloads. Note you may need to download the latest software from the Creality site and put it on a USB stick to update before the printer is listed, depending on when the Sonic Pad itself was last updated. This list is automatically populated with printers available on your local network. Same issue here. This network port is somehow also coupled to each physical USB port on the device. It’s a practical and easy-to-use tool that can help you remote control and monitor your 3D printer and help print directly from your computer. cfg files as such: [virtual_sdcard] path: ~/gcode_files/Ender6/. Ender-3 V3 3D Printer. I was watching the z value while printing a large print (covered almost the complete bed) and could see rapid small Mar 7, 2024 · The Sonic Pad will be restocked in the Creality Official Store (both EU&US) by October 12. As promised Creality has added to the list of the Sonic Pads supported printers In this video we will be completing the setup of our 3d printer now it is connected to our Sonic Pad using Klipper. It's…. 1. Check whether the power connection of the Creality Sonic Pad and the printer is normal. With the latest 1. Solution: Move printer port to USB3 on back top of SonicPad. I am trying to set up my Sonic Pad but it won't connect to my printer. FREE delivery Thu, Jul 18. April 24, 2024. The Ender 3 S1 was updated to the latest firmware prior to attempting this upgrade. Feb 5, 2023 · Bit of a how to when it comes to using the Sonic Pad and on an Ender 3 printer. I have a Sonic Pad hooked up to an Ender 5 S1, and it works fine. Apr 20, 2023 · 3D model description. I have the separate printer. Pricing and Availability: Snagging Your Sonic Pad 💰. In the front, we get a 7-inch color touchscreen with 1024×600 resolution. I have the same issue with my Ender 3 S1 after reinstalling my firmware last weekend. Feb 6, 2024 · Basic Information: Printer Model: ender 3 pro. Galeforce MK3 v2- Ender 3 /s1/ s1 pro Auxiliary cooling Fan. Q9: Time-lapse photography did not shoot successfully. I have tried updating the Marlin software first. To clarify - ultimaker is written to support "generic" printers and then some of those printer users customize cura a bit for extra bonus options like "printing directly" (whatever that means). Add the function of controlling 4 printers at one time with one sonic pad. 8. Reply. The editorial team at Clever Creations excels in providing It changes it on the "pick a printer screen" but frequently has the wrong name listed for the selected printer. 2) Perform calibration including resonance test and pressure advance. 4 KB) Fill out above information and in all cases attach your klippy. Apr 6, 2024 · The Sonic pad is connected to an Ender 3 S1 Pro vai the front USB C port, I’ve tried 2 different USB cables and it’s still stopping at random points during a print, the print I’m currently doing as I type this it’s stopped 4 times already. pcbway. I have tried flashing several times. After the printer is powered on, the Creality Sonic Pad will automatically connect to the printer. Any more ideas? when you flash the firmware make sure the Apr 13, 2023 · In this video I'm going to show you how to configure your slicer settings to get the most out your 3d prints when using the Creality Sonic Pad. Log in to your Creality Cloud in the app and navigate to Workbench. log file (use zip to compress it, if too big). 2. 6. cfg for the BIQU B1 running Klipper via the Creality Sonic Pad. 48. Click to find the best Results for creality sonic pad holder bracket mount Models for your 3D Printer. 57, it doesn't appear on the Creality website yet, and it does mention supporting the laser for the two s1 models. 2, The Sonic Pad's built-in Klipper firmware has been updated to the latest version (v0. Share. Check that the printer is properly connected to the Creality Sonic Pad. Feb 3, 2023 · sponsor://Check out PCBWay, the one-stop solution for PCB manufacturing and assembly, 3D printing, CNC and more! https://www. cfg . But don’t worry; our guide At first glance, the Creality Sonic Pad looks like a lower-end tablet with a large body and a smaller touchscreen. log Hi I’ve just received my Sonic pad and gone through the updates ready to connect to my printer. A powerful combination of software and hardware ensures unparalleled 3D printing performance! 1. Once the printer was connected to a USB port, it shall be bound with the very USB port for future use. I cannot print from the USB even though the Sonic pad sees the files on the USB stick. Sonic Pad stopped printing from USB after latest update. I will report back You can just edit the existing config file in the web interface and copy/paste the relevant parts of the provided printer. I used PrusaSlicer for slicing. Oct 5, 2022 · 5th October 2022 By Gidon 1 Comment. MCU / Printerboard:4. 5) Start regular print on new printer. Pad, Matrix IM w. Click to find the best Results for sonic pad sensor mount Models for your 3D Printer. Still can't figure out how to make Z offset negative on sonic pad when leveling. 0. Nov 3, 2022 · The new update offers users printer profiles for Creality and non-Creality printers and a lot more. Here is my printer. Besides. Save $10. , better cable, 5V blocker, mechanical stabilization of loose USB port, etc. As the title says, I need to edit the printer. 0), and Mainsail (v2. After that was done, I was able to import the creality profiles and tune from there. Those values in the config are the printer limits so as long as you have 500 in there, the slicer won’t care. after multiple manipulations, I got almost everything corrected. Up to 600mm/s global speed, 3x 5020 axial fans. Nikoli January 11, 2024, 5:49pm 4. This issue I have… The easiest thing is just to go to your pad and add any printer. On the back of the Sonic Pad, we get a power connector, two USB A connectors, an RJ-45 connector and a dedicated connector for the ADXL sensor cable. The idea of the sonic pad is to run Klipper. Jun 14, 2023 · The Sonic Pad comes with many profiles of Creality-made and third-party 3D printers that contain a klipper. Feature 2: Intuitive UI & Real-Time Preview - The Sonic Pad supports sliced model preview using Reality Print, Ultimaker Cura, Prusa Slicer, and Super Connect via Network. Read all about 3D printer and Creality Sonic Pad compatibility. You should research if you printer/board will work well with Klipper before spending money on the sonic pad. I opened a support case at Creality for the same problem some moments before. For the Sonic Pad with the E3V2 printer with Dual Gear Extruder Double Pulleys I have set rotation_distance = 22. I like having the ability to run all 4 printers of mine from a single source. Its led to a lot of half drunk errors on my part. Apr 9, 2024 · If Creality improves the instructions and default configs, and we really hope they do, the Sonic Pad would be an easy way to run Klipper on your 3D printer with good results. We will update it I’ve got a proper Klipper printer and Sonic Pad Klipper on my CR-10 V3, and unfortunately there are minor differences in the config compared to a normal Klipper config, so a vanilla Klipper guide doesn’t end up working. $14900. Nov 5, 2022 · Creality Sonic Pad Serial Cable, Convert Sonic Pad into Upgrade 3D Printer Touch Screen, for Ender 3 Pro/V2/MAX,Ender 3 S1 Pro/Plus,Ender 3 V2/MAX Neo,Ender 5 S1/Pro,Ender-7,CR-10 Smart Pro 4. Award. bin file just generated to the sharings folder You can with Klipper, you do have webcam1 and webcam. Another 11 printers are added to preconfigured model list. Edit: I think it's under manage devices on the pick a printer screen. Basic Information: Printer Model: Ender 3V2 MCU / Printerboard: V4. Sonic Pad supports user-defined programmable macros for a personalized function. The printer didn't quite brick, but it ran like it usually does with the Sonic Pad. The Sonic Pad is updated to the latest firmware. Yes it does. 588. ) Is there a way of transferring the cfg to a memory stick to edit on my laptop before reversing that and Nov 10, 2023 · Enabling SSH and getting the root password on the Creality Sonic Pad is easy: From the Creality Sonic Pad home screen, select “Configure”. I've made a second printer in cura, but it's all the same IP address since it's just going to the pad. I could be mistaken but I believe you can see the bed mesh compensation in action while printing. A: 1. I recently modified an E5plus with a sprite extruder. (the firmware in SD/TF will be automatically flashed after the printer is powered on) Seite 11 14. Troubleshooting. Mar 17, 2023 · How to install Creality Sonic Pad on Sovol SV06. Had to set up a new printer as a "Custom FFF Printer" in cura and then change the x y z values and endstops and start/finish g-codes. Print stops after some hours, the printer must be shut off and on to recreate the USB connection to the sonicpad. Look up how to connect non ender printer to sonic pad and you should be able to find a video from CREALITY. Have a fee other tips in there as well. You will see a warning about the power of root access. Make sure you use Auto Z Offset, Bed Levelling, PID My Sonic Pad and won’t connect to my Ender 3 S1. Just go through the steps and insert a usb drive when it asks to flash the firmware. Welcome to Creality official Sonic Pad community. Essentially yes. My typical project is developed on my computer, sliced with Creality Slicer then exported to a USB memory stick. 5. Doesn’t matter which one. traditional cel animation (hand drawn & hand inked!), watercolor backgrounds and live jazz recordings. Currently, the Sonic Pad only supports connecting the following printers: 10000+ "sonic pad mount" printable 3D Models. It’s based on Klipper which is a powerful open source 3D printing firmware. Jan 10, 2024 · Creality Print can see the Pad and the 2 printers attached to it but can’t connect to any of them, pad or printers. cfg file, but I do not have access to the web interface. Klipper is the next generation but the processor in the printer isn’t powerful enough to run it. com/Here we test one of t Was able to set up a second printer and will work on my third here soon. Click to find the best Results for sonic pad holder Models for your 3D Printer. free Downloads. (Note: Each printer is supposed to plug into one particular USB port. 25] The Creality Sonic Pad is a 7” colour tablet that connects to your 3D printer with a USB cable. At some point, the filament starts hanging off the print. Jan 9, 2024 · This fault is limited to reading from USB, which is my preferred method. . I’m having an issue setting up LAN Printing through Creality_Print with my Sonic Pad. We have released a new product like a tablet, runs on Klipper in September 2022. K1C (FC Bayern Edition) K1 Max 3D Printer . I have updated the Sonic. Scroll down and select “Advance options”. 3) Start print with normal operations to establish what vibrations will normally be present on the bench. (Don't ask, I've tried everything, followed multiple guides, I can't plug it in to ethernet or move it closer to the router either. Apr 7, 2023 · Control Sonic Pad in Creality Cloud App. Plug the other end into your computer. Thankfully drag and dropping files to the web browser works just fine, so a bit of a workaround. It allows you to control all aspects of the printer, including all of the configuration and control Mar 17, 2023 · After flashing the printer, connect it to the Sonic Pad and the on-screen guide will walk through the rest of the setup process. When using the Y Axis Mount, you will need to move it to a position on your bed where the nozzle won't hit it when homing. Click to find the best Results for sonic pad mount Models for your 3D Printer. 2 Connect the Creality Sonic Pad and 3D printer with a USB cable to your printer (Use the correct adapter if necessary). Installing the firmware onto an SD card via an adapter and flashing it to the 3D printer is straightforward, with on-screen instructions making the installation process easy. I tried flashing my printer with the Sonic Pad process but the Sonic Pad would not connect to printer. Monitor and control up to 4 printers with ease. I found that I can save a file from the USB to “Local” on the Sonic pad and print from there Cuphead is a classic run 'n' gun set in the style of a one-on-one fighting game universe. 0), along with Moonraker (v0. 850, printing is without problems. Oct 26, 2022 · If you are looking for a plug-and-play way to add Klipper to your 3D printer, Sonic Pad is the way. When it’s done copying the firmware to the usb stick for your made up printer, just cancel out and then open up the pad on your browser by typing the ip into it. 📷. Click to find the best Results for sonic pad stl file Models for your 3D Printer. Table: Pros and Cons Breakdown. Or fastest delivery Wed, Jul 17. Select “Other Settings”. Updated to the latest Sonic Pad firmware, that seems to have dropped today, and no difference there. 50+ bought in past month. I have been printing with my Ender 3 S1 Plus and Sonic Pad for a few months without any major issues. Alternatively, the Add button allows to manually enter the IP If you’re a patient human being, who tries to learn through changing one factor at a time, you’ll likely have great results from the SonicPad opening up a ton of features the stock printer doesn’t expose to you. Jun 6, 2023 · The Sonic Pad runs Tina Linux, a forked version from Allwinner of OpenWRT, with old versions of Klipper, Moonraker, Mainsail and Fluidd. Thanks to Sovol for today's video - they are the makers of the Sovol SV06 and SV06 Plus. Improved print speeds and print quality. This section is what you’re looking for: Change the max_accel from 500 there. Mar 8, 2023 · The Sonic Pad can support multiple printers, and the network port you use to access each printer's klipper/moonraker instance is pre-configured. You can get printers going in seconds. US$10. Theres very, very little MCUs that arent supported by Klipper. 00. 00 with coupon. 2 %. I've tried, unsuccessfully, to update the "rotational distance" in the printer. 503. 10000+ "sonic pad holder" printable 3D Models. M420 S1 apparently does not work with Klipper I heard. The stock printer runs the Marlin firmware. simply put, yes and no. 10000+ "sonic pad stl file" printable 3D Models. Click on the printer to enter the control page. Write the firmware to the SD/TF card, then insert the SD/TF card into the printer, click Next step. klippy. This printer. Be sure to check our “Knowledge Base” Category first. e. Problem: Frequent random disconnects during printing when printer is connected to USB 1 on SonicPad. I just modified my Ender 3 Pro to a Sprite Extruder Pro and CR Touch and would like to hook it up to the Sonic Pad as well. Then the USB is inserted into my Sonic Pad where I invoke the print feature. 30 Models are pre-configured) Creality Print is a self-developed FDM slicing software produced by Shenzhen Creality 3D Technology Co. The numbers should be near the bottom of your printer. List: $199. cfg and if you customize that you will never see the files from your other printers. cfg file with original equipment manufacturer (OEM) values. So far everything is fine but lastly I need to add a printer. Thanks for watching!Here are some aff Creality Sonic Pad System Restore Tutorial (Windows) | Creality Cloud. In the firmware I just upgraded to it is fixed so it works in the Device management edit screen on the Sonic pad. Table: User Reviews Snapshot. Changing the fans out to be more quiet, Adding a USB webcam, and also installing Klipper with the Creality Son K1C Carbon Fiber 3D Printer. More > Ender Series. run command make (generate firmware) Upgrade printer firmware via SD/TF card; Create a new "ubuntu_sharing" on the computer disk; Open VirtualBox--Settings--Shared Folders,Add a shared folder (tick auto mount),Mount point type "/sharings" Copy the klipper. Creality_Print will indeed find my Sonic Pad on my network, including the correct IP address and printer My profiles didn't import the first time either. cfg file START_PRINT Add the following to your The Creality Sonic Pad can connect to almost any FDM 3D printer available on the market via a USB cable. The Sonic Pad went through just as if it was new. Mr Hat and Topre Kit, rebuilt G81-3000 SAV, GMK Oblivion Git R2 72. If the printer does not show up, try refreshing the list manually. I even took the bottom of my printer off to confirm I was flashing for the correct mainboard (F103). 0), Fluidd (v1. On my sonic pad I have two ender 6 printers and two ender 3 v2 printers. Potentially to be the first Klipper controller available. Creality told me its not supported yet and will be in the future. Hardware: Ender 3V3SE and Sonic Pad. Inspired by cartoons of the 1930's, the visuals and audio were painstakingly created with the same techniques of the era, i. Put the Sonic Pad into "Burning Mode" by pressing and holding down the outermost recessed button with a small tool while turning the Sonic Pad on. Scroll down and select “Root account”. 11. Select your printer from the list of available networked printers. But still can't print normally. The Creality Sonic Pad is an easy way to get into Klipper. The Sonic Pad takes over the complex stuff and sends simple commands to the stock mainboard that runs a simpler firmware… and it also provides remote access, etc. to open the network connection window. 3. cfg file. 2. They make a great 3D printer that is perfect for beginners, without breaking the bank. Performance and Testing: The Creality Sonic Pad in Action 🎤. EDIT: I just got the update pushed to my sonic pads 1. 46. Mar 17, 2023 · In this video I'm going to quickly run you through setting up a Creality Sonic Pad and connecting it to a non-Creality 3d Printer. Table: Where to Buy the Creality Sonic Pad. I ended up buying a Sonic Pad and I love it. Connects to most FDM 3D printers and is pre-configured for 22 Creality 3D Printers. You’ll get a device that makes ~8-10fps webcam monitoring available when you’re in a different room. I followed all of the instruction perfectly for device setup. After I slice my project I click “LAN Printing” then in the top right I click “+Scan Add”. cfg. Till now, there are 21 Creality printers in total that have been preconfigured to Sonic Pad: Apr 14, 2023 · Posted April 19, 2023 · Creality Sonic Pad. I'm 100% sure I'm doing this wrong because the instructions for updating 12. 24. In this video, I'll show you how accurate Oct 12, 2022 · About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright Sep 12, 2023 · 5. Hello Matrix 2. Advertisement. All suggestions to fix this failed, i. It takes over control of your printer and makes it faster and easier to use. Any solutions to the issue or should I just send the Sonic Pad back Ender 3 v2 + Sonic Pad + Sprite Pro Printer. Seite 10 13. I was just add the printer instead of doing it this way, since the sv01 uses CREALITY motherboard. Boot Settings After the connection is completed, press the power button of the Creality Sonic Pad to enter the boot-up operation (follow the order of the guide instructions to configure the product). Customisation of the Creality Printer. Therefore you will need to convert from marlin to Klipper. Enter configuration-camera to see if there is a real-time image, if there is no real-time image, it should be turned Connect one end of a USB A Male to USB A Male cable into the bottom port labeled "CAM" on the back of the Sonic Pad. Creality After-sales. Install the Sonic pad as per instructions, and using the Ender 3 V3 SE profile on the Sonic Pad. They use a prusa but all the steps are exactly the same other than selecting you cpu and mcu frame which you can find on your mother board Oct 9, 2022 · This item: Sonic Pad Klipper-Based 3D Printing Smart Pad, The Best Upgrade for 3D Printers, Compatible with Any FDM 3D Printer (Ender-3 V2/Ender-3 S1/Ender-3 S1 Pro etc. Rarely does a chinese company actually contribute anything such as print profiles or machine profiles for This morning I turned on my printer and sonic pad and it's back at the select region or whatever the first question is it's like it wiped the setup so I went back through and setup my printer again and when logged into the web ui I can see the previous configuration for my printer right there like time stamp and the date and all. cfg is not needed. zk sm cx vs gr pm mn fg rq tj